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[Cedar]

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO
ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE DE L'ONTARIO

Thursday 5 November 2009 / Jeudi 5 novembre 2009

http://www.ontla.on.ca/house-proceedings/transcripts/files_pdf/05-NOV-2009_L185.pdf

http://hansardindex.ontla.on.ca/hansardeissue/39-1/l192.htm


INTRODUCTION OF VISITORS

"Ms. Andrea Horwath: I would like to welcome a couple of women: Ruth Rideout, who is here today from Beaverton, and Valerie Andrews of Origins Canada, from Richmond Hill. Welcome to the Legislature."


ADOPTION DISCLOSURE

Ms. Andrea Horwath: My question is to the Acting Premier. The McGuinty government advertises a six- to eight-week wait for access to adoption records in this province, when it really takes up to 36 months. What is the government's plan for ensuring its six- to eight-week turnaround time is actually met?

Hon. Dwight Duncan: To the Minister of Community and Social Services.

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: Yes, the adoption modification in the legislation was very successful and we have had a lot of requests. It's not the first time that I hear this comment, so we are investigating the matter. If you have any specific cases, I'd like to know and we will act accordingly.

The Speaker (Hon. Steve Peters): Supplementary?

Ms. Andrea Horwath: What the minister didn't say is they rolled out a program and didn't put the infrastructure in place to actually deliver it.

Ruth Rideout and Valerie Andrews are here today, representing thousands of adoptees who have already waited far, far too long for their records. The McGuinty government has created a customer service nightmare of delays, backlogs and lack of tracking. Ruth waited 19 weeks and received incomplete information. Valerie waited 20 weeks and the CAS says delivering all her records is going to take another 36 months.

With November being Adoption Month, will the minister agree to meet with people like Ruth and Valerie and to fix Ontario's adoption disclosure system once and for all?

Hon. Madeleine Meilleur: I'll turn that over to the Minister of Government Services.

Hon. Harinder S. Takhar: I'm actually very pleased to provide some information about the data, such as how many applications we have received and what's happening with them.

As of August 17, 2009, the ministry had received 6,505 applications for disclosure vetoes from adopted persons or natural parents who prefer to keep their personal information private. The ministry also received 1,500 applications from people who agreed to allow information regarding their cases to be shared but requested that they not be contacted by the other party. The ministry also received 2,100 applications from people indicating their contact preferences.

We have received a lot of information and a lot of applications. We are working through it and responding to them as quickly as possible.

[Denise]

As of August 17, 2009, the ministry had received 6,505 applications for disclosure vetoes from adopted persons or natural parents who prefer to keep their personal information private. The ministry also received 1,500 applications from people who agreed to allow information regarding their cases to be shared but requested that they not be contacted by the other party. The ministry also received 2,100 applications from people indicating their contact preferences.


Is it just me or does anyone else find these numbers somewhat horrifying, 6505 applications for disclosure vetoes 1500 no contact? I would like to see some factual data on this. It seems exorbitantly high to me. How can we obtain the numbers, are they available thru the freedom of information act?

Denise

p.s.
Thanks Val for being there on behalf of all of us!!!!

[Cedar]

I want to find out two things:

- How many of these disclosure vetoes are from adoptees, and how many are from natural parents?
- For the disclosure vetoes, did the government mail out forms to "all adoptees"?  Did they use the address they had on file for the adoptive parents when they mailed out the forms?

[Denise]

Cedar,

Good questions both. How do we get these answers and what did the government do to ensure that the vetoes they received from adoptees were actually from them and not the a-parents?

I am as overwrought by these numbers as I was when I was told 20 years ago that only 3% of male adoptees ever search for their family. I lived with that number for 18 years and one month till my son came calling.

I call BULLSHIT here!!!

Denise

[lissa]

That many vetoes were received??  From the parents or adoptees?  Has the government bothered to divulge that information?  I was told they didn't have the statistics on applications received - by the individuals working at the Ontario Registrar-wtf?!  

I'm horrified by the number of vetoes received.  I am also not surprised.  The ads in the papers advertising open adoption records in Ontario asked, "Have You Been Touched By Adoption" mainly focussed on the veto and no-contact aspect.  They seemed to have thrown in the contact preference as an alternative.  The whole point to opening the adoption records was to obtain our information.  

I second that point - how can we ensure that the vetoes are in fact filed by adoptees and not the a-parents?  

This is bullshit... I have been waiting for over 22 weeks for my information... that, or a response from the registrar.  No one I've spoken to on the phone has given me a straight answer.  They don't know what the hell they are doing.  It's an administrative mess.  Or, perhaps, they know exactly what they are doing.  I get the impression the information they are to assemble is incomplete (as mentioned in the original post here) and the lack of information is ridiculous.  They cannot or will not confirm whether our applications were even received.  The incompetence is a joke.

I was last told I would be "lucky" if I received a response before Christmas.  

[Valerie]

Hi Lissa,
They are working on applications received in August timeframe I believe...they are getting them done albeit slowly.
V

[PF]

To me the most shocking aspect of the minister's report was that he was asked about delays in responses to disclosure requests, but instead gave stats only on vetoes and contact preferences, and said nothing on the progress of disclosure requests. As Lissa said, this was the purpose of the legislation. And that the opposition parties including Andrea Horwath did not notice this and follow up is very annoying.

I agree that the service is horrendous. Especially troubling is the lack of communication with people applying, including confirmation of application. After some intervention from the Ontario Ombudsman's office, it was revealed that my application had been lost, so I had to re-apply a few weeks ago.  Since there are no receipts for applications, there is no way to know if they have the application or not. Turns out I've spent 6 months waiting (with all the stress that entails, given the possibilities for vetoes) when I had no chance of receiving the info.  Service Ontario and the registrar's office don't seem willing to tell me whether this means my application goes to the back of the line or will be processed with other applications sent in early June. They must know one way or the other - but treating people like humans seems not on the agenda around adoption disclosure.

The rationale for not giving updates on the status of applications is that the information is too sensitive for Service Ontario reps to have access to it. However, how hard would it be to allow people who want a receipt to include a stamped address envelope with their application? A file number could be sent back to the applicant in the envelope. The file number would allow Service Ontario to update status while keeping all info anonymous.

I encourage people who haven't got their information yet to contact the Ontario Ombudsman's office. www.ombudsman.on.ca or 1-800-263-1830

That's how I found out my file had been lost. Also, it'll send a message that people aren't happy with the service. I think my complaint resulted in the Service Ontario website no longer claiming that the processing time is 6 to 8 weeks.  I think if more of us make a complaint, more pressure will be put on Service Ontario to be more accountable to and respectful of people applying for their info.

There was a rumour that August applications were being processed, but it turned out that someone who applied in 2007 had reapplied in August 2009. So their application date was actually 2007, not August 2009. The stats I got from the registrar earlier in December was that they received about 9000 requests for information, of which about 5000 have been processed, leaving a backlog of 4000. They were still working on June applications. 


 

[Cedar]

To put this wait into perspective, I waited 3 weeks to get my open records from the B.C. government in 1999.

[sly]

Does anyone know if these figures have been updated?  I find this a disturbing trend.

[Hanne]

I waited 3 weeks in BC too and just recieved the docs last month.

[JaneAyer]

Personally, I think unless it's known that an adopted child, or biological parent is a dangerous criminal, then neither adopted child, nor biological parent should have the right to prohibit the other from knowing 1.Who they are, their first and last name. 2.Their genetic medical conditions, past, present, future. 3.The names of any siblings, whether full biological or only half. 4.Photos, those of infancy, through the years, and of the present.

Nobody can force a relationship, that's a given, but the above, at the least, should be mandatorily available, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Also, I wonder of those vetoes, how many are 1.filed as being on behalf of adoptees, but is really adopters filing them. I wonder that especially since I remember seeing somewhere online per rules of adoption per the states, that in at least the state my son resides and was adopted in, Arizona, a no contact order can be filed at the adoption, by the adopters, which if I recall correctly and understood correctly, also stated that an adopted child can't even be contacted until the age of 21. But if a veto for no contact was filed by the adopters, does that mean that any attempt by a biological parent at the age of 21 or older, will be a violation, and that a biological parent (such as myself) can then be threatened with legal repercussions, such as a restraining order?  

2. How many of the vetoes actually filed by adoptees, requesting no contact, are a result of brainwashing. Of them being led to believe their biological mother/father didn't want them; is bad, is crazy, is dangerous, etc. Whatever reason beat into the brains of adopted children. Or are a result of the adoptee being emotionally or otherwise, manipulated/and or blackmailed, into filing them, due to a threat of loss of either their relationship with their adopters, which to them, may be important, or a loss of perhaps a home, financial help, etc.

3. Of the mothers who asked to not be contacted, how many of them were forced into giving up their child, and how many for whatever reason, are afraid of their life being disrupted, messed up, or how many are famous, or wealthy, and are afraid their child will use them. How many are victims of rape.

4. How many of the mothers never got extensive therapy, never got a support system of understanding people to share it with, whom could have helped them to come to terms with the fact that they had a hand in the creation of a child, and that they brought the child into the world.

Again, I think that while relationships can't be, nor should be forced between biological parents and their children, I do think that barring any real serious threat to them and their life, such basic information as I listed above, should be mandatorily available. That it's not is appalling as far as I'm concerned. We're talking about human beings, not documents that threaten global security!